View Full Version : Chinas continuing growth.................
kurusch
05-22-2005, 10:09 PM
Should the 'West' be worried by this? Is this provocative or merely sensible defence?
http://srirangan.net/india-defence/node/241
14 May 2005: Deepening its “strings of pearls” strategy of acquiring bases and cultivating ties from the Middle East to Southern China, China is now planning a submarine facility on one of the Indonesian islands close to the Malacca Straits, and Australia has protested this.
Diplomatic sources said that China ostensibly wants to protect the sealanes of communication in the Indian Ocean, especially the transit of oil tankers from the Persian Gulf, but it is also seen as a measure to preempt a US blockade of China’s energy sources in the event of a war with Taiwan.
In January, The Washington Times published an internal report for US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld in which the “strings of pearl” strategy was posited, and the key under-construction Chinese bases that were identified were Gwadar in Pakistan, and facilities in Bangladesh, Myanmar, Cambodia, Thailand, and the South China Sea generally, but Indonesia is a new addition.
The Pentagon report said, “China is building strategic relationships along the sealanes from the Middle East to the South China Sea in ways that suggest defensive and offensive positioning to protect China’s energy interests, but also to serve broad security objectives.”
The report added that “China…is looking not only to build a blue-water navy to control the sealanes, but also to develop undersea mines and missile capabilities to deter the potential disruption of its energy supplies from potential threats, including the US Navy, especially in the case of a conflict with Taiwan.”
“The Iraq War, in particular,” said the report, “revived concerns over the impact of a disturbance in Middle East supplies or a US naval blockade,” adding that Chinese military leaders wanted an ocean-going navy and “undersea retaliatory capability to protect the sealanes.”
As a direct consequence of such thinking, China will mass the Indian Ocean with attack submarines, and sources do not rule out deployment of nuclear submarines as well.
Because of anomalies in GPS data immediately available to undersea submarines, diplomatic sources warned that there would be a growing number of Chinese territorial violations in respect of India, and Australia has already objected to the upcoming Chinese facility in Indonesia.
British and proud
05-23-2005, 06:12 AM
no. If things got tense, America would just nuke them. Sad but true
ozzi-solja
05-23-2005, 07:41 AM
the hell those suck asses are detonating nukes anywhere NEAR my country.
in truth, its the first media coverage i've heard of this submarine facility, and to be honest, the Australian Government is only concerned because the yanks want us to be.
frankly couldnt give a **** about China's growth/expansion or foreign policies. Its America's response i'd be more concerned about.
kurusch
05-23-2005, 11:08 AM
the hell those suck asses are detonating nukes anywhere NEAR my country.
in truth, its the first media coverage i've heard of this submarine facility, and to be honest, the Australian Government is only concerned because the yanks want us to be.
frankly couldnt give a **** about China's growth/expansion or foreign policies. Its America's response i'd be more concerned about.
That is the problem with the US, since Brush, it is possibly more unpredictable than China. Fortunately for Oz and NZ, China is too big to bully and the US has a history of wanting to 'talk' to powerful opponents. And, the present US regime is unlikely to resort to nuclear weapons unless and until its forces faced defeat in the Pacific. It is notable that China works much harder than the US at honouring agreements. I believe that as long as the US keeps its presence and its allies continue to show firmness with a willingness to accomodate Chinese expansion, China can be trusted.
royal marine
05-24-2005, 02:56 PM
dnt u get it??? in the bible codes it says that the middle east are allies and gonna rise up against UN so this is the first chess move of the whole thing...and yer but u would nue them but other comminist countries will nuke u back and the we will uke them and then the world would be a bit of ocean flying thru orbit
kurusch
05-24-2005, 07:50 PM
dnt u get it??? in the bible codes it says that the middle east are allies and gonna rise up against UN so this is the first chess move of the whole thing...and yer but u would nue them but other comminist countries will nuke u back and the we will uke them and then the world would be a bit of ocean flying thru orbit
Do try to keep a grasp on reality please.
ozzi-solja
05-25-2005, 06:08 AM
WARNING: Attempting to interpret religous writings is a volatile ingredient in an arguement.
please, i have read the Revelations and well as the writings of Ezekiel. not a single mention of any such power like the UN is mentioned. only extremist interpretations have been made on such things, with the finger pointing primarily at either the middle east or Russia as being the 'Gog and Magog' of the writings.
Personally, i think its all bull**** (not the bible, the interpretations), but if they ARE correct, then we have around two years three months until the world ends. seriously, i'm not kidding, some crack pot actually said August 2007. check it out, i think its on some site like apocalypse.com
back to China and foreign policy... i agree with Kurusch, the US is a dangerous nation, not one to be ****ed with. BUT, its the only nation that acutally stands up to keep others in check. unfortunately some believe that by doing this, she risks making herself look like a total *****.
royal marine
05-25-2005, 10:23 AM
if u dont wann **** with the US uhave common semse mainly bcos u got the britishbacking them therefore......GURKHS and huever said keep to reality, its true u know and also interpretations are extreme bull**** iknow but im not jsmac i dont wanna start an argument m8s
ozzi-solja
05-26-2005, 06:08 AM
u say you dont wanna start an arguement, yet your opening sentence is quite an eye opener.
allow me to respond: I'm not afraid of American's because they have British allies, i'm afraid of Americans because they are Americans. i couldnt give a **** how many times Bush has licked Blairs crack. Hell, Howard likes to join in every now and then, so we're just one big happy family right?
but apart from that, i thankyou for staying away from the religous crap. it either brings the world together, or tears it apart.
ozzi-solja
05-26-2005, 06:09 AM
and besides, im not even afraid of Americans to begin with, i'm just stating that any country would be much wiser to be friendly to them than start **** with them.
kurusch
05-26-2005, 10:18 PM
Well, thanks to the Brits, who managed yet again to turn what was meant to be a serious discussion into a chimps bun-fight. What wankers you are.
Anyone want to say something about the original topic?
ozzi-solja
05-27-2005, 05:03 AM
China is... a controversial nation. Although they are the largest power in the Asian Pacific region, and probably all of Asia.
However, the old 'anti-communist' line of thinking will get the world ****ing nowhere. China, in relation to Taiwan, is merely protecting its interests. How would the US feel if Miami formed its own nation?
The focus of any concern in the Asia'Pacific theatre should not be on China. North Korea is the one we all fear because we simply dont know enough about it.
In any hypothetical combat theatre, would China assist the DPRK? If so, then China IS a concern. But that all depends on the intentions of North Korea.
In retrospect, do we really care about North Korea anymore, or is that just another 'anti-communist' line of thinking.
With China's expansion, well, politically Australia is all for it. They want to buy our raw Uranium for use in the Energy Market, as well as India. Plus we are currently orgainsing a free-trade-agreemen with China, meaning that we can really make a profit out of this expansion.
Military expansion however, is NOT agreeable. We have enough problems with the Japanese fishing vessels, we do not need Chinese Cruisers and Submarines patrolling near our waters.
royal marine
05-29-2005, 05:24 AM
yes i do think that they are gonna invade taiwan but what if we respond...it could cause a war against communism
and besides, im not even afraid of Americans to begin with, i'm just stating that any country would be much wiser to be friendly to them than start **** with them.
The bible mention that the Untied States will play an important roles in the future and all of the world will follow by US examples. Until then, US will enforce the Mark of the Beast and enfoce the blue law (mandoratory Sunday worship or be put to death- sounds retarded but it's true, it happened in GA back in the 60's, google it if u don't believe me). If they don't accept the Mark of the Beast, then they will be kiled. To be honest, Jesus Christ is the only person that will oliberate the final empire- the US. However, a bible is just a bible, we don't know for sure but we just have to put our faith in Jesus I guess. I am not a religious person, but I used to be one.
Gog and the Magog was mentioned in the bible, but it's the four corners of the earth. Lucifer is pretty much in charge in all of the empires, he's just manipulating to fit his needs, I am just speculating here.
royal marine
05-31-2005, 05:14 AM
oh so vietnam the massive failure with no concern of ur country was a key role in the future
kurusch
05-31-2005, 06:25 AM
[QUOTE=MX8]
The bible mention that the Untied States will play an important roles in the future and all of the world will follow by US examples.
Really? Care to show me the quote(s)?
ozzi-solja
05-31-2005, 07:00 AM
agreed, all a matter of interpretation. the bible doesnt 'state' anything about the United States. Just the fact that the yanks like to think of themselves as important in the play of the theologically hypothetical apocalypse.
[QUOTE=MX8]
The bible mention that the Untied States will play an important roles in the future and all of the world will follow by US examples.
Really? Care to show me the quote(s)?
Yes, read revelation 13:3 (I am not sure if this is correct), but it's referring to a beast that's rised from the land, he has two horn, tame as a lamb but spaketh like a dragon (if you read the book of Daniels, dragon represent the vatican, thus the dragon gave his authority to the US). The two horns represent powers- Democrat and the Republic. Is there in any history that other parties won? No- just the republican and the democrat. I will double check on Revelation and make sure I got the right chapter and verse.
To reinforce my argument, here is the excerpt from revelation chapter 13:
Revelation 13
"1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
I can't highlight some of the verses, but just read it and analyze it really carefully. It's compose of symbols, but I have been a christian for many years and I have study the bible as well.
kurusch
05-31-2005, 02:51 PM
Yes, read revelation 13:3 (I am not sure if this is correct), but it's referring to a beast that's rised from the land, he has two horn, tame as a lamb but spaketh like a dragon (if you read the book of Daniels, dragon represent the vatican, thus the dragon gave his authority to the US). The two horns represent powers- Democrat and the Republic. Is there in any history that other parties won? No- just the republican and the democrat. I will double check on Revelation and make sure I got the right chapter and verse.
Where does it say the Vatican gives any 'authority' to the US?
Who says the two horns represent the two American political parties?
My interpretation would be: 'And the beast arose from the ground, it be tameth as the lamb and speaketh as the dragon, with two horns atop its head. The lamb doth show the face of the lord Jesus and speaketh in the dragon tongue, Mandarin Chinese. And the horn of the head doth decree the dual Christianising and Capitalisement of the dragon.'
My version is just as stupid as yours.
kurusch
05-31-2005, 02:56 PM
[QUOTE=MX8]To reinforce my argument, here is the excerpt from revelation chapter 13:
Revelation 13
"1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
I can't highlight some of the verses, but just read it and analyze it really carefully. It's compose of symbols, but I have been a christian for many years and I have study the bible as well.
Yes, maybe, I can't see what the hell you're raving about. So where is the USA in all this?
Like my previous post, I could make this tripe say anything I wanted.
ozzi-solja
06-02-2005, 03:09 AM
holy christ!! some people ARE full of ****. 'two horns being democrat and republican'... thats the biggest load of theological bull**** i've ever heard!
like i said before, the yanks like to think themselves important when it comes to biblical interpretations
royal marine
06-02-2005, 06:02 AM
yer that is true.....there is nothing in the bible about the US showing a key example and leading all other countries.....what if the other countries dont want to be ruled and bossed around by the US....u really think we HAVE to do what u say
royal marine
06-02-2005, 06:03 AM
and in that verse does it mention USA.........NO
kurusch
06-02-2005, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=kurusch][QUOTE=MX8]To reinforce my argument, here is the excerpt from revelation chapter 13:
Revelation 13
"1 And I minced upon the sand of the sea, and saw a mighty **** rise up out of the sea, having seven helmets and ten big spots, and upon his helmets ten chancres, and upon his foreskin the name of blasphemy. 2 And the erection which I saw was like unto an ironing board, and his feet were as the feet of a 96 year old tramp, and his mouth as the mouth of my old granny: and the dragon gave him his orgasm, and his semen, and great relief. 3 And I saw one of his helmets as it were wounded to death; .................................................. ..............................................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................
18 Here is a load of bollocks. Let him that hath no brain count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
This makes just as much sense as the original...........IE none.
soulchild
06-03-2005, 11:09 AM
To the idot making the bible say what he want's to say....... shut the **** up. Yea this COULD be referring to the United States, but people would be saying the same **** for the past 2,000 years sooooo shut the **** up.
Back on topic. Yea I'm worried about Chians expansion because eventully they are going to want Tiawan back and the US is going to be right there to protect our intrests in Tiawon. However I'm fairly positive that Nukes wouldn't be randomly involved because of the international fallout that would occur. If the US begins using tactical nukes in conflicts would open up liberty for other countries, such as India and Pakistan, to use nukes in their conflicts. Bush isn't that dumb, the rest of the worl should be thankful that we have bush and not Cheny who is MUCH more agressive and scheming than Bush could dream of being. But every1 is right America is to be feared :cool:
royal marine
06-06-2005, 11:13 AM
dont get ****y mate ull look like a fool wen they do bad......not likely just pissin im off.......itsjust an accident waiting to happen (war with china)
M4M203
06-22-2005, 09:58 PM
Man war w/ China that be crazy, but "Royal Marine" your country would be on our side, best allies :) :) :)
royal marine
06-26-2005, 11:50 AM
that is true america are our closest allies and visa-versa....always will be
P.S i'll see the seals on the fronts
Texas
06-26-2005, 01:03 PM
China owes its economic /industrial growth to American and European Corporations installing manufacturing plants in China .These corporations then Export their goods back to Europe and America. China is simply protecting the sea lanes in order for these massive corporations to succeed and grow in china . Its inevitable that there be an increase in Chinese military expenditure . I doubt the chinese would jeopardise the very Market places it so depends upon to sustain its growth.
royal marine
06-27-2005, 10:39 AM
in other words china are getting hostile
Texas
06-27-2005, 02:01 PM
I think the China of today is a different proposition to the China of the past .
In the past for example the chinese unofficially declared war in Korea against the U.N,Occupied Tibet ,launched Border incursions against Indian Army and Soviet Army . Not forgetting the anti-democracy stance it took in Tianenmen square aginst its own people.If we are serious in the west about China Reforming its method of government and foreign policy maybe we should stop investing so much money their ! Impose sanctions and force reform on China . Of course we won't do this because we have Billions of dollars / pounds and Euros invested their . It would be economic suicide .
Today China itself can not afford to lose trade with the west . If it did it would be the end of its own economic growth .
I was just reading what that China boy said the other week about Chinese Army being a peaceful Army. It may be now but it certainly wasn't .How many people got squashed(by Tank) ,bayoneted and shot in Tianenmen square :rolleyes:
If thats peaceful my names Adolf !
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