Since I did law enforcement for 5 years of my life, we are trained to help people with issues but we cant prevent everything; especially outcomes like these. Same when it goes suicides or other forms of premeditated murder. I just had chow with some MPs and they totally concur.

Should we take a vested interest in when soldiers go bonkas on saying they want to kill Haji everyday? Or we just accept it a patriotic mindset to stay alive.

Does anybody believe the ACLU could get involved in someone's infringe rights on religious beliefs in the military?

I have come across many soldiers who are outspoken against the war based on experiences. And they are adamant and angered if you differ with their opinions.

They are some loons on here that might need some help but they are safely hidden by a computer (remember the guy who committed himself and showed it to people viewing it on his webcam?

People are passionate about this today because it hits home and that is how it always is. Nobody gives two craps about something until it hits their backyard.

Here is the article
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?s...&article=65920

Fort Hood deals with aftermath of shooting as details of accused gunman emerge
By Leo Shane III, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Saturday, November 7, 2009

Megan McCloskey / Stripes
Imam Syed Amed Ali leads prayers Friday afternoon at the Islamic Community Center of Greater Killeen, Texas. Ali was interviewed about Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan by the FBI. He said Hasan came to prayers every morning. The mosque called the shootings a "cowardly attack" that no "religious ideology could ever justify or excuse."

Megan McCloskey / Stripes
Duane Reasoner, Jr., right foreground, prays at the Islamic Community Center of Greater Killeen Friday afternoon. Reasoner had been having regular dinners with Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. RELATED STORIES:
After the shooting, combat instincts kicked in
Muslim groups quick to condemn shooting

WASHINGTON — Some said he was an outspoken Muslim, prone to emotional outbursts, angry about the U.S. war in Iraq and dreading an impending deployment to Afghanistan.

Others who knew him recalled Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan as a dedicated Army psychiatrist trained to help fellow soldiers cope with the psychological wounds of combat.

And a few noted that while Hasan never exhibited a violent side, they weren’t particularly surprised to learn he allegedly was at the center of the worst mass murder ever committed on an American military base.

Now the 39-year-old Muslim-American, who authorities say killed 13 people and wounded 38 others in Thursday’s rampage at Fort Hood in Texas, is at the center of a riddle investigators have only begun to probe: How could a military psychiatrist, surrounded by other mental health experts sensitized to signs of combat stress, suddenly snap without any apparent warning?

As Hasan lay in a coma in a Texas hospital after being shot by base police responding to Thursday’s attack, investigators fanned out across the country Friday in search of a motive or explanation for the killings.

Hasan grew up in Virginia and spent years in the Washington, D.C., area on military assignments, before being transferred to Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood in August, officials said.

Dr. Val Finnell, a classmate of Hasan’s last year at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Maryland, called Hasan “a vociferous opponent to U.S. policy in Iraq” and said he frequently spoke about his faith, sometimes in inappropriate venues.

“We had an environmental health class assignment; most of us gave presentations on things like molds in homes and allergens,” Finnell said. “Hasan’s topic was, ‘The U.S. war in Iraq: A war against Islam.’ I have no idea why the faculty even allowed him to make such a presentation.”

Following the shootings, Hasan’s family told The Washington Post that he had endured name-calling and harassment about his Muslim faith during his 12-year Army career, and was upset about an imminent deployment to Afghanistan.

But Finnell said Hasan was usually the instigator of arguments, speaking openly about the injustices of U.S. military missions overseas and sulking when others challenged his remarks.

“He made himself a lightning rod,” Finnell said.

Another Army officer who worked with Hasan at Walter Reed Army Medical Center said Hasan was “generally polite” with staff but problematic with his patients. On several occasions, he said, Hasan condemned his patients struggling with drug or alcohol addiction for “unholy” behavior, and openly tried to convert others to Islam.

“When I heard that he was behind the shootings, frankly it didn’t seem like much of a stretch,” said the soldier, who asked to remain anonymous because Army commanders instructed him not to speak about Hasan.

Fort Hood officials said Hasan used a pair of handguns in the attack, which took place at the Texas base’s Soldier Family Readiness Center. Most of the injured were soldiers at the facility for pre- and post-deployment medical checkups.

Hasan served six years at Walter Reed before his Texas assignment. As a clinical psychiatrist, he worked with both wounded troops returning from war and their families. He also served as a fellow for disaster and preventive psychiatry at the military’s Center for Traumatic Stress, official records show.

Hasan has never been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, but Army officials confirmed he was due to be sent to Afghanistan later this year.

Dr. Asif Qadri, head of the medical clinic at the Muslim Community Center in Silver Spring, Md., said Hasan frequently attended prayer services there. He spoke with pride about being a Muslim serving in the Army, Qadri said, and was known as a “jovial” and “well balanced” person who never talked about politics.

On Friday for about 45 minutes, the FBI interviewed the imam of the local Killeen, Texas, mosque that Hasan attended. Seyed Amed Ali doesn't speak much English, but he said the president of the Islamic Community Center of Greater Killeen translated for the FBI.

Ali said Hasan prayed every morning, normally wearing his uniform. Hasan told the imam he planned to visit his parents in Virginia for two weeks prior to deploying to Afghanistan for a six-month tour. Records show, however, that Hasan's parents are deceased.

Just last week, Hasan expressed views that Muslims shouldn't serve in the military and fight other Muslims, according to Duane Reasoner Jr., a recent Muslim convert who had been having dinner regularly with Hasan.

Hasan had taken 18-year-old Reasoner under his wing, mentoring him in his new faith. After evening prayers he would often buy a fish dinner for Reasoner and sometimes the iman at the Golden Corral, a chain buffet restaurant. Besides mentioning that he prayed for a wife, the conversation almost never strayed from religion, Reasoner said, describing Hasan as warm and caring.

Manager Vera Brooks said Hasan, dressed in typical civilian clothes, was a regular there, eating by himself almost every weekend.

The night before the shootings, Hasan and Reasoner went as usual to the Golden Corral. Reasoner said Hasan acted as he always did. No red flags.

"Nothing was out of the ordinary," he said.

Neighbors in Hasan’s former apartment complex in Silver Spring said they had only superficial relationships with him. Malcolm Frazier said he had brief conversations with Hasan in the apartment hallway, and that Hasan usually wore traditional Muslim dress in his civilian time.

But he described the Army major as a quiet man who was always alone.

“I didn’t even know his name,” until his face showed up on the news Thursday night, Frazier said.

Army officials could not confirm eyewitness reports that Hasan shouted “Allahu Akbar!” — Arabic for “God is Great” — during the attack, and FBI officials would not confirm reports that Hasan had already been under surveillance by authorities for a questionable Web posting in May.

That posting, on the Web site scribd.com, was written by someone using the name “NidalHasan” who compared Muslim suicide bombers to U.S. soldiers who’ve thrown themselves onto grenades to save their fellow soldiers.

The large number of victims and witnesses in the attack — about 300 soldiers and 100 civilians were interviewed on Thursday alone — led to confusion and chaos in the aftermath of the tragedy.

The base was locked down almost immediately following the attack, trapping students in schools and parents outside Fort Hood’s main gate. At one point, investigators believed as many as three other shooters may have been involved, and later base officials had to correct a report that Hasan had been killed in the attack. On Friday, they emphasized that Hasan is believed to be the only shooter involved.

At Fort Hood on Friday, soldiers who had already suffered psychological trauma fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan suddenly found themselves struggling to cope with a fresh disaster.

Sgt. Howard Appleby, a 31-year-old combat engineer suffering from PTSD as a result of two deployments to Iraq, was at the base hospital Thursday when the victims of the shooting started pouring in.

For 45 minutes, Appleby helped pull the wounded from ambulances and private cars, crying the whole time.

“Now I don’t know who to trust because the guy who did this was a doc,” Appleby said.

Stars and Stripes reporters Kevin Baron, Jeff Schogol and Megan McCloskey contributed to this report.

__________________
“The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.”

Colin Powell

IAVA - Iraq/Afghanistan Vets of America member

My heart goes out to the brave souls whom hurting themselves ran into harms way with no regard for their own safety and helped their fellow soldier.... their stories have reached Irish shores and we have great admiration for our brave American brothers and sisters who stood tall in the face of such insanity....

The heros fallen and living have made a distinct impression on us.... as the old peom goes....

they stand in dawn's light, awaiting freedoms foe with rifle held tight,
they went for country, for freedom, for love and for what is right.
when is all said and done, they stayed for each other, and fought like warriors, fierce in the fight...
For those who fell, and those who survived, they now sleep side by side with honours flown high...
as the suns warm embrace covers their slumber, illuminating the land they saved
let us not forget their sacrafice and those whom carry the torch for us today....

Blue skies to the fallen heros... may they rest in peace!!

Exo..

__________________
"Barrel High, Powder Dry!"

"Illic est haud effrego ex Veneratio"

That is always the question after some one goes on a rampage - 'Why didn't we see it coming?'. The fact is that for many of these people, they are so withdrawn and make such minimal contact with people that there are few if any warning signs. In addition, people who are educated and in a position of responsibility are given a measure of respect and latitude.

This Doctor was surrounded by medical and mental health professionals, specially trained to look for signs of mental health problems. They didn't pick up on his crisis. And you think you could? Frankly, I doubt it.

I agree with your feelings, though. I think it's high time we brought back the death penalty. And my medical status be damned - I volunteer to flip the switch, spring the trapdoor, or push the syringe to end his life. Then I'll go home and sleep peacefully afterward.

[QUOTE=Nightflyer;112301][COLOR="Blue"] How could no one see this coming?



This was my first thought after the shock and sadness.

My heart goes out to the families.

I wonder how he got in and was able to do it.. How could they not have seen this?

Federal Agents told the Associated Press they have been interested in him for six mths?

How much do they need before they realize a person is a danger to others?

Too many signs overlooked and these soldiers and loved ones pay the price.

http://www.stripes.com/

The FBI monitored Malcom X and Elijah Muhammad knowing he was going to get assassinated and the rest of history. FBI was also tracking before the JFK assassination.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?s...&article=65936

Despite Army efforts, no catch-all test for troubled soldiers
By Kevin Baron, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Sunday, November 8, 2009
ARLINGTON, Va. — The Army does not screen every soldier for mental and behavioral health, and even if it did, it is impossible to say if any of the current efforts would have flagged suspected gunman Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan and averted the tragedy at Fort Hood.

After eight years of war and millions of dollars spent, the Defense Department and Veterans Health Administration have built the most robust safety net of mental health initiatives the force has ever seen. But it is not enough to screen half a million soldiers. It was not enough to stop Hasan.

Instead, what has emerged are piecemeal studies and initiatives, questionnaires and outreach messages, many of which are focused more on screening incoming recruits rather than midcareer soldiers, and those coming and going from deployments rather than soldiers such as Hasan, who have never been downrange.

Some of these programs are designed to educate tens of thousands of servicemembers on the warning signs of stress, whether from combat, multiple deployments, relationship strains or financial problems — factors that for some can lead to suicide or violent outbursts, but for others are simply the trials of military life.

From the time soldiers clear initial recruiting health screens to the time before deploying, it remains largely up to individuals to seek help when and if they want it.

Short of a command referral, there is nothing that compels every soldier to face a mental health screening.

“Leaders at all levels across the Army are working hard to reduce stigma associated with seeking care and to build resilience in our military force,” said Cynthia Vaughan, chief spokeswoman for the Army Surgeon General’s office.

Roughly 34,000 soldiers have been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. And the Army has 194 civilian, 121 military and 93 contract psychiatrists available to its population of more than half a million people, according to the surgeon general’s office. In the war zones, there are about 200 behavioral health specialists deployed in Iraq and just 30 in Afghanistan.

In the fall of 2003, just months after the initial invasion of Iraq, the Army deployed its first Mental Health Assessment Team, leading to a cascade of changes and beefed-up health programs.

A 2004 study by the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research led to the Post-Deployment Health Reassessment, rolled out in 2005. Soldiers returning from the war zones fill out a questionnaire and face a health screener, though not a mental health specialist.

The following year, the Army introduced an anti-stigma program to encourage mental health screening. The program is active in 15 locations.

There are also a few programs for soldiers who have not deployed.

On Friday, Army Secretary John McHugh and Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey, in a news conference at Fort Hood, said that while the motives and background of Hasan remain under investigation, the Army had taken significant steps to boost such initiatives.

Casey highlighted a five-year study announced this summer that is being conducted with the National Institute of Mental Health. It will look at individual factors that, in the right combination, might lead someone to suicide — or perhaps a rampage shooting like the one that occurred there Thursday.

McHugh, however, recalled Thursday that during his Senate confirmation hearing he had criticized the same study for taking too long to find results.

In July, then-Army Secretary Pete Geren and Vice Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Chiarelli called it the “largest ever study of suicide in the military.” At a cost of $50 million, the plan is to screen 90,000 soldiers and up to 120,000 incoming recruits, and study 290,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans.

But participation remains voluntary and at full capacity, the study still would not examine hundreds of thousands of current servicemembers.

Perhaps no program is as touted as Comprehensive Soldier Fitness. This fall, the force rolled out its first Armywide, mental health-related diagnostic test required of all soldiers: an online test called the Global Assessment Tool.

Soldiers answer 170 questions, developed by military and civilian psychologists, about their physical, social, spiritual and emotional health, as well as about their family life. Based on those answers, soldiers are asked to choose from several training program options, ranging from attending online or on-base classes to trying self-improvement training techniques “tailored to your level of knowledge and ability,” said Brig. Gen. Rhonda Cornum, who oversees the program.

The system records that each soldier has completed the exam and was given options for follow-up. However, the Army does not track results, or what help soldiers sought.

“The results will not be reported to anyone other than the person who took it,” she said.

Cornum, in a roundtable with reporters in August, was careful to caution the test is not meant to diagnose medical problems.

“It was developed because we recognized we really did not have a preventive and strengthening model for psychological health,” Cornum said.

Cornum called it “risk mitigation”, and likened the program to spraying a swamp for mosquitoes rather than waiting to see who turns up with malaria and treating disease after it shows up.

It’s about resiliency, the new buzzword in military mental health.

“Some of us learn that when we were growing up,” she said. “But not everybody had the opportunities and role models that taught them that.”

__________________
“The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.”

Colin Powell

IAVA - Iraq/Afghanistan Vets of America member

I agree with WOLQ, the Counter Terrorism Agencies dont catch everything... and tragedies do happen... its hard to make a call on this guy when all you have is internet chatter.... However, the chatter could lead to more relevealing points about his intentions... which is a judgement call by CT analysts as to the threat level....

It was a madman, who should not be tried for treason and if found guilty, executed in my opinion!!.. Afterall, he betrayed his own in a time of war...

__________________
"Barrel High, Powder Dry!"

"Illic est haud effrego ex Veneratio"

The poor misguided baby was all stressed out because after receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars of education from the Army & serving in nice air-conditioned hospital for 6 years & then being transferred to another nice air-conditioned facility at Ft. Hood was finally asked to do his job in Afghanistan (Iraq?) where he would have had to suffer through another tour in an air-conditioned building, probably as immune from enemy action as anything there.

The combat stress level is so very very high under those conditions. Did he really think he was going to be issued a firearm & made to lead Infantry in battle? Did he think he would be killing fellow Muslims? Maybe he shuddered at the thought that he would have to wear clean clothes again!

I don't have one grain of sympathy.

__________________
Proud Dad of a US Army Ranger SSG-Former 3/75 Rangers, 2/334-95 USAR at present
US Navy 1960-1966 Submarine Service, Navy Diver-UDT 21
US Army 1980-2001 Airborne Infantry,G3, Army Instructor, Commo Instructor Company 1SG
Retired 1SG/MSG
I was a Soldier. I am a Soldier. I will always be a Soldier.

Ok Doc- I hear what you're saying..We work everyday with each other. That said, Shoot! if a soldier has this kind of MO of being so withdrawn and he only makes minimal contact with fellow troopers.. I think he would've stood out to me. I talk to all the soldiers I work with all the time.Sometimes, When I knock off duty I still hang around. I love where I work and it's where I want to be, So, yeah, I would've picked up on the Maj. being so to himself and alone. Im a good soldier who's street wise. I check everything out. It's in my nature to stand Guard.

Yup! they get a pass. Im a soldier who has responsibility to my job and my fellow troopers. I would've taken my leadership position and would've have jumped on this guy from jump street to get help one way or the other..I would have told my NCO that the Maj. is about to go off! I would've have said it.

I think ppl like this always stand out. There easy to spot because of their MO..Im street wise. I've been walking old timers and ladies out to their cars for the pass 15/ 24 years..That's how we roll. I always keep a sharp eye out for anything when it comes to my friends and fellow troopers. It's what we do. We stand Guard..That's my take on this.

They should have taken him out right there and then. It's how I feel. Have a good day. Thanks,..

Night

__________________
The Broadwayblues / New York Yankees
Sacred Heart University-Division 1 Men's Ice hockey.
Army Aviation U S A


Classic. And we get it.

Posted by... Nightflyer..Go get me a beer.... Posted by Zekos....get me one too b.itch Posted by... Exo1.Haha!!... good man!!.... .........yeah!!.... while your out there get me one too.....Posted by... SniperALpha1Corona with lime is the way to go. CAUSE THAT'S AMERICA *****!Posted by...Zidane Whiskey pl0x.

__________________

Just picked up a bit more info on this - the semiauto handgun used was an FN Five-Seven, which holds a magazine containing 20 rounds. That's twenty shots between reloads, as fast as you can pull the trigger - that may make it a little easier to understand how a man with minimal combat training (he was a doctor, although he was enlisted prior to going to med school) could hurt so many people in the span of a few minutes. It also explains the large number of wounded and the (relatively) small number killed - the 5.7mm round is touted for its ability to penetrate soft body armor in its combat loading, but as a handgun round it is marginal at best. He could have done far more damage with a lower capacity firearm and a more knowledgeable choice of calibers - thank God he did not!

I also see that 30 round magazines are available for the Five-seven, so he may have used those, as well. Of course, 30+ round mags are also available for handguns in much more destructive calibers, as well. If MAJ Hasan had, say, a Glock 22 with multiple aftermarket 31-round magazines of .40 caliber Gold Dot hollowpoints or similar, we most likely would have seen many more deaths and critical injuries.