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  #1  
Old 02-26-2006, 12:33 PM
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kurusch kurusch is offline
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Default Anyone here still think 'we're' winning the war?...

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'Never was so much owed by so many to so few.'
Sir Winston Churchill.

Nearly 750,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion. That is a cause for shame, not pride.
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2006, 12:52 PM
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Common Sence Common Sence is offline
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HeHe

Maybe they need to ask Saddam how to keep that country under control? You think he's willing to help out? Maybe we should give it back to him so he can straighten things?

Interesting the way the "evil tyrant" stopped chaos from bringing Iraq to despair. Sad the way USUK can't pull it off.

Saddam, a more powerful force than USUK? How about that?

Cheers
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:24 PM
Tacky Tacky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Common Sence
HeHe

Maybe they need to ask Saddam how to keep that country under control? You think he's willing to help out? Maybe we should give it back to him so he can straighten things?

Interesting the way the "evil tyrant" stopped chaos from bringing Iraq to despair. Sad the way USUK can't pull it off.

Saddam, a more powerful force than USUK? How about that?

Cheers
Obviously you aren't aware of how Hussein "governed" his people.
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  #4  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:26 PM
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is, better than we do the answer?
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2006, 06:21 PM
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Spike Spike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacky
Obviously you aren't aware of how Hussein "governed" his people.
Oh please don't patronise. Oh course we know .Saddam Hussain came about because Iraq is an ungovernable entity . That is why it needs a dictator . Walking around the place with dillusions of spreading democracy are quite frankly laughable in the Arab world .
Iraq is the new Vietnam . If you can't see that then you are stupid . Save yourselves and find a replacement for oil !
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2006, 09:36 PM
Tacky Tacky is offline
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Quote:
Iraq is the new Vietnam
LOL, gotta love rhetoric.
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2006, 12:04 AM
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kurusch kurusch is offline
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'LOL, gotta love rhetoric.'
Gotta love sticking your head in the Iraqi sand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


By ALEXANDRA ZAVIS, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 19 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Violence killed at least 29 people Sunday, including three American soldiers,.......

.......but after nightfall explosions thundered through the city as mortar shells slammed into a Shiite quarter in southwestern Baghdad, killing 16 people and wounding 53, police said.

..........Mortar fire also hit a Shiite area on the capital's east side, killing three people and injuring six, police reported.

.......Iraqi police said they had found no trace of abducted American journalist Jill Carroll as the deadline set by her kidnappers for killing her passed at midnight Sunday with no word on her fate.

.......A bomb exploded at a Shiite mosque in the southern city of Basra, injuring at least two people, police said.

........More than 60 Shiite families fled their homes in predominantly Sunni areas west and north of Baghdad after receiving threats, said Shiite legislator Jalaladin al-Saghir and Iraqi army Brig. Gen. Jalil Khallaf.

.......North of the capital, gunmen stepped from a car and fired on teenagers playing soccer in a Shiite-Sunni mixed neighborhood of Baqouba, killing two of the youths and wounding five, police said.

.........In other violence, two American soldiers died when their vehicle was struck by a roadside bomb in western Baghdad, the U.S. military said. A third U.S. soldier was killed by small arms fire in central Baghdad late Sunday, the military said.

.......A roadside bomb also exploded near a police patrol in Madain south of Baghdad, killing one officer and injuring two, police said.

......To the west, gunmen killed an ex-general in
Saddam Hussein's army as he drove his car in Ramadi, a relative said. Former Brig. Gen. Musaab Manfi al-Rawi was rumored to be under consideration to be military commander in the town, an insurgent hotbed, said his cousin, Ahmed al-Rawi.

........Gunmen in a speeding car also seriously wounded an Iraqi journalist, Nabila Ibrahim, in Kut, southeast of Baghdad.

........"One could almost call it a low-level civil war already," Sir Jeremy Greenstock, who Britain's envoy in Baghdad until 2004, told British television channel ITV1.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060227/...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--
__________________

'Never was so much owed by so many to so few.'
Sir Winston Churchill.

Nearly 750,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion. That is a cause for shame, not pride.
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  #8  
Old 02-27-2006, 01:33 AM
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kurusch kurusch is offline
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BAGHDAD, Iraq - Fear of full-scale civil war continued to mount Saturday as Iraq's minority Sunni Muslim population lashed back in a bloody campaign of retaliation after three days of Shiite Muslim militiamen and mobs killing Sunnis and attacking their mosques.

Saturday morning, a group of gunmen stormed the house of a Shiite family northeast of Baghdad, separated the men from the women, and shot 11 men to death, according to police.........

A car bomb in the southern Shiite city of An-Najaf killed at least seven Iraqis and injured 54. It was apparently meant to target a revered Shiite shrine, but security forces had turned the driver away at a cordon..........

The bodies of 14 police officers from the Interior Ministry's mostly Shiite commando unit were found in southwest Baghdad. The men had approached a Sunni mosque Friday night -- the government said they were there to guard the building -- when they got into a confrontation with a Sunni vigilante mob protecting their neighborhood.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...d/13967030.htm


http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=109738


http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...AQ-MORTARS.xml


http://news.webindia123.com/news/sho...61742&cat=Asia


http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L26100828.htm


http://www.wjactv.com/news/7465095/detail.html



Most of the corpses in Baghdad's mortuary show signs of torture and execution. And the Interior Ministry is being blamed.

By Andrew Buncombe and Patrick ****burn

02/26/06 "The Independent" -- -- Hundreds of Iraqis are being tortured to death or summarily executed every month in Baghdad alone by death squads working from the Ministry of the Interior, the United Nations' outgoing human rights chief in Iraq has revealed.

John Pace, who left Baghdad two weeks ago, told The Independent on Sunday that up to three-quarters of the corpses stacked in the city's mortuary show evidence of gunshot wounds to the head or injuries caused by drill-bits or burning cigarettes. Much of the killing, he said, was carried out by Shia Muslim groups under the control of the Ministry of the Interior.

Much of the statistical information provided to Mr Pace and his team comes from the Baghdad Medico-Legal Institute, which is located next to the city's mortuary. He said figures show that last July the morgue alone received 1,100 bodies, about 900 of which bore evidence of torture or summary execution. The pattern prevailed throughout the year until December, when the number dropped to 780 bodies, about 400 of which had gunshot or torture wounds.

"It's being done by anyone who wishes to wipe out anybody else for various reasons," said Mr Pace, who worked for the UN for more than 40 years in countries ranging from Liberia to Chile. "But the bulk are attributed to the agents of the Ministry of the Interior."

Coupled with the suicide bombings and attacks on Shia holy places carried out by Sunnis, some of whom are followers of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Qa'ida's leader in Iraq, the activities of the death squads are pushing Iraq ever closer to a sectarian civil war.

Mr Pace said the Ministry of the Interior was "acting as a rogue element within the government". It is controlled by the main Shia party, the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (Sciri); the Interior Minister, Bayan Jabr, is a former leader of Sciri's Badr Brigade militia, which is one of the main groups accused of carrying out sectarian killings. Another is the Mehdi Army of the young cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, who is part of the Shia coalition seeking to form a government after winning the mid-December election.

Many of the 110,000 policemen and police commandos under the ministry's control are suspected of being former members of the Badr Brigade. Not only counter-insurgency units such as the Wolf Brigade, the Scorpions and the Tigers, but the commandos and even the highway patrol police have been accused of acting as death squads.

The paramilitary commandos, dressed in garish camouflage uniforms and driving around in pick-up trucks, are dreaded in Sunni neighbourhoods. People whom they have openly arrested have frequently been found dead several days later, with their bodies bearing obvious marks of torture.

Mr Pace, a Maltese-Australian who has now retired from his UN post to his home in Sydney, says the constant violence and utter lack of security in Iraq are creating a vicious circle in which ordinary citizens are turning to extremist sectarian groups for protection. Fear of anybody in official uniform inevitably strengthens the militias and the insurgents. In Sunni areas people will look to their own defences, and not to the regular army and police.

But ordinary Sunnis are caught between the death squads and the desire of some of the insurgents on their own side to start a civil war - an aim they are now not far from achieving. The so-called Salafi, Sunni fundamentalists, want not only to eject the Americans but also to build a pure Islamic state. They see Iraqi Shias, even though they are 60 per cent of the population, as heretics allied to the US who should be slaughtered.

Last week's attack on the Golden Mosque is only the latest in a long series of outrages against the Shia community. They started in August 2003 when Mohammed Baqr al-Hakim, then leader of Sciri, was killed, along with more than 100 of his followers by a suicide bomber in a vehicle outside the Imam Ali shrine in Najaf. There have been repeated massacres of the Shia ever since - some targeting the security forces, such as the attacks on queues of young men trying to join the police or army, but others, such as the slaughter of Shia day labourers waiting for a day's employment, for no other reason than that they are Shia.

Despite extending a 24-hour curfew into a second day yesterday in Baghdad and other major cities, the authorities were unable to prevent further revenge killings and outrages against holy sites. The current cycle of violence, which began with the bombing of the Azkariya shrine in Samarra on Wednesday, has claimed at least 200 lives so far, including those of 47 factory workers pulled from buses and shot on the outskirts of Baghdad.

This was the sort of killing that touched off Lebanon's civil war in 1975. Already an exchange of populations is taking place in Baghdad as members of each community move to districts in which they are in the majority.

The ability of the US occupiers to influence the situation is not only limited, but some of their actions are seen as making things worse. The Americans have been trying to dislodge Mr Jabr as Interior Minister, accusing him of turning his ministry into a Shia bastion. But the Shia believe that the US and its allies, the Kurds, simply want to prevent the majority community from gaining full power over security despite winning two parliamentary elections in 2005.

One important development over the past few days is that it is clearly becoming very difficult to use American or British troops to keep the peace, undermining the argument that they are the only bulwark against civil war. The occupation forces lack the legitimacy to play the role of UN peacekeepers; it is almost impossible to have US soldiers defend a Sunni mosque against a Shia crowd, because if they open fire they will be seen as having joined one side in a sectarian struggle.

In Mr Pace's view, the violence in Iraq is being made worse by the seizing of young Iraqi men by US troops and Iraqi police as they move from city to city carrying out raids. "The vast majority are innocent," he said, "but they very often don't get released for months. You don't eliminate terrorism by what they're doing now. Military intervention causes serious human rights and humanitarian problems to large numbers of innocent civilians ... The result is that such individuals turn into terrorists at the end of their detention."

In such circumstances, family members often contacted UN officials asking for help in getting a young man outside of the country and away from the influence of insurgents they had met in jail. They were among many Iraqi citizens fleeing the country as a result of the violence. "Those with money go to Jordan. The poor go to Syria," he said.

Mr Pace, who first made his comments to The Times of Malta newspaper, said the situation in Iraq had "definitely, definitely" got worse over the two years in which he headed the UN human rights team. The interim government and the international community were trying to restart the country's crippled economy, but, he said, they would not succeed "until people are secure".

THE KILLERS

BADR BRIGADE:

Armed wing of the most powerful Shia party. Many police and paramilitaries 'still wear Badr T-shirts under their uniform,' a US general said.

MEHDI ARMY:

Loyal to the Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Apart from open clashes with Sunnis, its members in the police are accused of death squad killings.

DEFENDERS OF KHADAMIYA:

Followers of Hussein al-Sadr, Moqtada relative. Among forces set up to guard Shia shrines, but having more sinister links.

SPECIAL POLICE

COMMANDOS:

Feared by Sunnis, despite having had some Sunni commanders.
__________________

'Never was so much owed by so many to so few.'
Sir Winston Churchill.

Nearly 750,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion. That is a cause for shame, not pride.
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2006, 01:45 AM
strike strike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike
Oh please don't patronise. Oh course we know .Saddam Hussain came about because Iraq is an ungovernable entity . That is why it needs a dictator . Walking around the place with dillusions of spreading democracy are quite frankly laughable in the Arab world .
Iraq is the new Vietnam . If you can't see that then you are stupid . Save yourselves and find a replacement for oil !
The end is nigh, the sky is falling, massive breakup of Iraq is just around the corner(it was supposed to happen in 2003 itself) but better late then never .As for as Saddam yeah right tell that to the kurds and shias. We will find a replacement for oil eventually nuclear energy as wind,water,solar etc.Though nuclear power should have more support from the elites and masses alike than they do now.

Last edited by strike; 02-27-2006 at 01:55 AM..
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2006, 04:54 AM
RMC RMC is offline
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WHAT do you mean, the end is nigh!
yes maybe the middle easterns will unite and wage war against us but our military troops and equipment are much better, if the middle east even threaten us with an A bomb then they know what will be coming for them.
the US has about 2000 nukes, britain has around 300 nukes and the rest of europe has nukes aswell.
PH 'end is nigh'
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